香港獨立媒體 - Comments for "側寫香港最大型的反以色列示威﹝夾雜着大堆胡言亂語﹞"

Interception of Communications and Surveillance Bill

We need to care about what is happening outside HK and I am sorry for being unable to attend the Sunday demonstration. However, it had at least over a hundred demonstrators (just don't know if many of them were migrant works). What about the Interception of Communications and Surveillance Bill that will affect all of us? How come there is no demonstration outside legco to support legislators who are fighting this bill? I think we have underestimated the damage this bill can bring to us.

Choi

"成報"以前以越戰為頭版

70年代中"成報"仍是以越戰為頭版.....我記得...因我家是睇"成報".....我仲記得有條標題是: "南越軍民硯港大撤退秩序大亂士兵輪姦婦女"....好深刻的一段新聞.....

SIGH

Sad......
How come?

開題是o係邊個到!

前幾日同一個在某報做國際版副編的朋友吃飯, 可能兩人無見面太久,缺乏話題, 竟談起以黎問題. 友人與本人同屬英帝國精英制度栽培下的大學精英, 自然對國際問題一曉不通. 幸好20多年的高等教育沒有白費, 未負良師之教導, 早己修成吹水神功,二人雖對問題一無所知,卻又吹得頭頭是道. 以下是當天對話的節錄:
本=本人友=友人
(前文省略)
... ...
本: 你睇下,香港d報紙,呢幾個星期對以黎的報導有幾多?香港有幾多記者會深入戰區作深入報導?(按:係太少,唔係話無)
友:你知唔知以黎新聞有幾多人睇?香港個market 太細了,根本容不下這樣的報導. 你知邊o麻,在香港報業中政治同國際新聞係毒藥, 唔會有人睇. 你睇下本"杯碟"雜誌, 而家都係吊緊鹽水. 我地最清楚, 呢d 野無人睇的. 報紙的網上點擊次數加埋我地做o既study group 就知道. d 標題有"性""強姦"或者"亂倫"的字眼點撃次數就爆晒燈,一有"以黎"就死硬.
本: 咁你即係話個問題唔o係你地到, 而係o係d 讀者到啦?
友: 呢個唔o係邊個o既問題,我覺得兩者都無問題. 辦報紙唔係做慈善,為理想. 你試下掟舊錢出來做理想, 個個月燒銀錢, 你有幾多銀錢燒. 老總日日都望住個點擊次數,咩知識分子報,民主報都係一樣,見到個rate 一跌就腳震. 一個版面幾日無廣告就死得人.
本: 我知道做報紙唔係做慈善, 因為只有做慈善的才是慈善.同樣地,做報紙的亦唔係為理想,因為只有為理想的才是為理想. 這個logic 之abc, 語言之廢話我都仲識d.雖然香港3個堆填區都就快爆,但係我都係勸你將呢d說話拎去堆填.
但就係因為咁, 你地d 報紙就要日日在國際版到登d 泳衣大哥妹, 又將個版面叫做咩"世窗", 我都唔明點解日日都有咁多大哥要睇,要睇咪買隻四仔睇個飽o囉. 肥龍的事就交給龍去處理吧.(說到這裡, 同枱的其他食客一聽到"大哥""四仔"同"肥龍",頓時精神抖擻,大以為有入貨好地方,誰知原來空歡喜一場,亦不在話下)
友:香港就o係咁架啦, 我地日日都收到好多從世界各地來的新聞圖片,日日都有仇殺,平民被殺, 你報得幾多日?日日都係果d殺人相, 好快就會麻目, 無人睇.
... ...

以巴已經打得剪不斷，理還亂

好像以前的武俠片，兩派弟子為報師仇殺來殺去，過程中各自又死了師兄師妹，於是又有新仇，報來報去報到不清不楚。

武俠世界裡面邊有少林大師出來勸化雙方，講句冤冤相比何時了，再拋下一句阿彌陀佛，就點化大家解決成件事，現實世界聯合國又完全做不了"少林大師"的角色。

真主黨本身就好似舊中國吳佩孚，張作霖之類的軍閥，有自已政治議程，黎巴嫩"中央"太弱無法節制，但又深深植根社會中，以色列猶太傳統要報仇就要以眼還眼，要打就要不顧一切，愈來愈亂。

我現在開始覺得，聖經中的哈米吉多頓末日大戰不是不可能的。

Listen to this: MSF team discussion

http://www.podcast.msf.org/webload/web/2006/lebanon_MSFhouse_security.mp3

This is how close they got from being bombed.

Displaced persons in Lebanon are their concerns, and they are ours too. We claim to be civilized human beings, and it is time we act on that.

Families are running from the bombs. There are not a lot of food, supply, medicine, and now clean water may come to become a shortage.

That is the reality. While we protest against the bombing, we have to tell the stories of the people who are simply "on the run", just because they are residents.

Alternative news (of sort) from Medecins Sans Frontieres

MSF teams struggle to get relief goods into Lebanon (http://www.msf.org/)

At 2pm a call came in to the MSF Coordination Office in Beirut from the team in Sour (Tyre) in the far south of Lebanon. The coordinator in Sour reported that a missile landed very close to one of MSF's medical teams during an Israeli air strike.

Getting humanitarian aid to the Lebanese population is not an easy task. Beirut airport has been heavily bombed and the runways are damaged. Travelling by road from Syria is hazardous. MSF is currently exploring other options for transporting relief goods overland, but at the moment the only safe way for the teams to get goods into the country is by boat from Cyprus.

Find out how you might help.

寫錯了

我阿媽是差不多每日都看報紙，不是每月。我阿爸在生時，每日看兩份報紙 tim！

不能放棄主流傳媒

去集會前我同阿媽飲茶，告訴她飲完茶去示威，抗議以色列入侵黎巴嫩，阿媽的反應是：「人地（以色列）都係保護自己o者！」我阿媽七十幾歲，差不多每月都會看報紙。事實上，她日常生活以外的知識都是來自報紙。我猜很多香港人都是，所以，不能放棄主流傳媒啦！繼續在報章上寫我們所知所聞好緊要，好像朱凱廸在明報上寫的文章，寫得很好呀！不但不能放棄，還要寫多一些呢！

麥當勞，對於以色列復國主義和以色列政府一直以來的擴張主義和以暴易暴政策，一些猶太人／以色列人也有反對意見，不是全都贊成以色列政府所作所為的。星期日集會上，胡露莤也強調了這一點。如果可以了解一下猶太人／以色列人中的不同意見，也許會有不同角度看以色列立國的這段歷史和中東的現況。

法西斯？

我也很反對強塞沒有說過的說話，亦同時反對強塞名詞來討論，例如法西斯主義，例如反猶。

反對以色列濫殺，並不等如 "反猶" ，"反猶" 是anti-semitism，是一種根深蒂固的種族主義，有千年歷史。如果反對以色列政府今日的一種政策和做法，就要戴 "反猶" 的帽子，我只能想起那些通通把要求平反六四的行動，叫作 "反華" 的人。也想起凡是借扁家貪污案，叫阿扁下台的人為 "反台" 的人。

歐洲人存在反猶主義上千年，對他們來說是長痛，希特拉認為長痛不如短痛，解決的方法就是把猶太人關到集中營和煤氣室，這就是法西斯主義！

戰後歐洲人自覺自身的反猶主義，根深蒂固，長痛難以根治，於是鼓勵支持猶太復國主義 (Zionism)，去英國前殖民地巴勒斯坦地區立國，其實也是一種長痛不如短痛的想法支配。結果每個短痛速治良方，最後又變成長痛。

以色列人每次戰爭都以為可以用軍事手段，可以解決他們的長痛，不是今日打真主党開始，82年殺入貝魯特大屠殺，96年又殺一次，今日看來，是否每次都不能斬草除根？那真正的短痛良方在那裡？結論就逃不出 final solution ---希特拉敢說敢做，毫不姑息，不求偏安的那一場短痛！

不用說，真主党以滅以色列為目的，以色列是他們的長痛，恨不得有原子彈作短痛良方。因為世界上真正示範了用短痛解決了長痛問題的只有美國，他們用原子彈解決了日本的法西斯主義，只不過美國的勝利，造就了人人國國都長出了要擁有核武這種慾望，要用短痛良方去解決長痛問題的各種法西斯！

ok, i take it back and i apologize

and i did, i did say sorry in the very last sentence in my previous post ...

but ..........

1. you still have to give us your points to refute my statements and/or support why you think 短痛 is the better approach ... you can't just say because i demonize you so you stop elaborating your points ...

for instance, do something like what 泥彩 and Jacky TT did -- they did give their stand points ...

2. if you think i put words into your mouth and i should not follow your logic, or i followed it wrongly, then say it how the logic should be applied or followed ... so instead of killing them ALL, let's say kill them 50%, or 80%, or 30% ??? ... is this what you want to say ... at least give us some hints how you want to end the currrent situation ...

mind you, after yesterday's bombing of a building to kill about 60 innocent people, most of them women and kids, israel did say they are going to halt airstrike for 48 hrs ... at least this is some sort of ceasefire as far as airstrike is concerned, though too late, too little ...

3. most importantly, don't victimize inmedia ... they let everyone speak and have done a superb job ...

you think you have a non-mainstream thought ... that is fine and you can post your thoughts here ... same for those guys who think they have a mainstream thought ... no one is trying to suffocate you, or brain-wash you ... but after you say something, pls be prepared to defend your position, and be ready to change your position if after careful consideration, you come to the conclusion that the other side has a better case ... (this has to do with cognitive dissonance and it is not a smooth or happy process, i know ...) ... but pls don't feel like you are being demonized for every single challenge ... every thinker comes here to be challenged ...

恕我無知

如果我們真的認為以軍停止空襲, 那批平民以及以色列平民在真主黨游擊隊下一樣要死, 而家以軍停止空襲都係殺同一批人而已, 但可保住以色列平民, 咁你既長痛論或許有理由

但事實當然唔係咁啦......所以長痛論我都難以接受

不過看來現時沒有好方法避免流血, 因為雙方都係癲既

一面鏡：你這樣看別人，別人就同樣看你

當你動了氣的時候，難道你以為別人不認為你才是 "hypocrite, senseless cold-blooded murderer" 嗎？

至於其他 put your word into my mouth 的所謂 "following the logic"，這跟強塞沒有分別，不值一提。把你的對手妖魔化了，你好開心嗎？這根本是變態的。

「獨立」媒體都有他的侷限，他可以好像主流媒體一樣嘗試去 blackout, ignore 或 demonize 一些少數聲音。這個時候，「獨立」媒體便和主流媒體無乜分別了。這樣的氣氛，令人感到好窒息的。我以為是我在參加宗教團契，非洗腦不可。

長痛 vs 短痛

actualy i don't quite understand the argument of 長痛 vs 短痛 ...

do you mean the currnet killing is only 短痛 so for the greater 'good' of having no 長痛, we should keep the killing going ???

if this is really the argument, then following the logic, the only way to fix the problem is kill them ALL so that all 長痛 can be eliminated ... is this what you want ???

with so much innocent deaths -- women, kids, shouldn't we least stop the senseless killing first, i.e. have a ceasefire first ???

also, having a ceasefire first doesn't mean we are done with the job, doesn't mean we can now go to the backyard, do the bbq, have a beer and have a crap talk ...

it means we are giving peace a chance, giving the innocent people a way to live ... it means everyone still has the job to do to bring peace to the region; it means everyone should still sit down and talk about it ...

pls allow me to say that whoever say 我也不同意 Ceasefire is nothing but a hypocrite, senseless cold-blooded murderer ...

sorry, something very stupid gets into my head and i just lost my cool ...

針對法西斯主義，可以有短痛良方嗎？

針對法西斯主義，可以有短痛良方嗎？
有，良方就是另一種法西斯主義。
所謂訴諸短痛來醫好長痛的想法，正好就是法西斯主義；
法西斯思維的一個特徵，正就是以為可以有短痛良方，以痛制痛！