I really want to know. Even until now, what is the point to hide?

Do they want Lebanon to be destroyed, or what is their aim??? Now, the war is already spreading, and what is the use hiding? I frankly can't understand what they want. I mean, I can't agree that it has totally been Israel's fault. Of course, whoever starts a war is somehow wrong, for me at least, but the irritating things 真主黨 did should be accused of also.

前兩日搵左一大堆資料, 其中有一篇是一個美國的記者訪問真主黨領袖的.

八二年以色列入侵黎巴嫩, 想將巴解份子完全消滅, 並扶植親以色列的民兵, 以色列在當地的暴力, 包括殺錯良民, 令到很多黎巴嫩人加入以對抗以軍的行列. 當平民要對抗軍隊時, 可以很不要命的. 所以, 即使主流的分析均說以色列於八十年代的暴力造就了真主黨.

過去十多年, 真主黨曾經有成為執政黨的意志, 提出了改革民生的方案, 所以入了內閣, 亦有很多黎巴嫩的人支持. 當然, 亦有部份真主黨武裝份子於黎巴嫩邊境和以軍衝突, 因為過去十多年, 很多真主黨或平民被捕, 變成戰俘.

我不是要說真主黨是正義的一方, 但暴力是循環的. 為什麼黎巴嫩有那麼多不同派別的武裝份子, 與周邊國家把它變成戰場有關.

對於這場戰爭, 有一些分析指出是為了攻打伊朗作準備, 先讓以色列鞏固邊防, 透過破壞黎巴嫩主要道路幹線, 和撤底消除其武力, 使以色列有一個 buffer. 美國再炸伊朗. 我不喜歡這種戰略方式的思維, 裡面完全看不到人命. 但我們正面對一個弱肉強食的國際政治世界. 聯合國自己都話自己比世界杯還廢, 大國完全不跟遊戲規則玩.

從1982-2000年, 很大片的黎巴嫩領地均被敍利亞和以色列佔領, 以色列在2000年撤出前, 亦扶植了當地民兵管治黎巴嫩南部. 黎巴嫩政府的管治範圍大概就是貝魯特市區和主要的城鎮.

台灣打中國的類比令人噴飯. 若說黎巴嫩立國宣言以對抗以色列為己任可以合理化今天以色列的入侵; 你知道嗎, 國民黨逃到台灣時的綱領是反攻大陸啊!!!

We really don't need to waste our time to "educate" an ignorant, yet arrogant individual who have a lot of uninformed opinions.

A few years back, there was a program in helping Palestinian and Israel children to get to know each other, so that they would grow up and not hate each other.

The program was a success. A few years later, the follow-up program would no longer get these children to play together.

That is the sad part of being in constant conflict.

Anyway, like I said in the other related thread. Israel bombing Lebanon for having terrorists in the district, is like Beijing government bombing Mongkok just because there is a lot of Triad members. It makes no sense.

Israel should stop the bombing, unconditionally. And find other ways to deal with terrorists.

根本沒可能。

第一，甚麼叫做保家園？很多人的家園本來就在現在的以色列境內。他們正是為奪回家園和以色列對抗啊！

第二，這樣是惡人嬴晒。你憑甚麼認為以色列政府比其他兩個政府好？不如改為，三國盡歸黎巴嫩？

第三，即使在以色列內，也不是所有猶太人平等。正統猶太教信徒，可以不用交稅，不用參軍，又有政治權力。

watch out ...

when we made the comment "We really don't need to waste our time to "educate" an ignorant, yet arrogant individual who have a lot of uninformed opinions.",

when we said "無知不是借口",

there is already a lot of arrogance, and a bit of condescension in you ...

no one agrees to israel's disproportinate use of force ... frostig did said that "明白這事情牽涉很多人命﹐任誰也很著急" and a very good question was also raised : 可是﹐是否指責以色列就是最好的﹐最應該的﹐最有用的做法呢﹖

i know right now this should not be the time for a blaming game, but to put the whole thing in a better perspective, maybe we can have a little thought experiment here :

1. what if 真主黨 released the 2 hostages right at the beginning of israel's air strike ???

2. what if 真主黨 hadn't shower rockets onto a number of israeli cities ???

too many what if's here, why not ask :

1. what are the root cause of the middle east, or israel - arab conflict ???

2. is it really true that all arab countries 以消滅以色列為己任 ???

3. what about israel ??? ... does she also 以消滅 arab 為己任 ???

4. if 2 & 3 are not correct, then how can peace be brought right upon that piece of land ??? ... can we set up some, say, demilitarized zone in both the northern and sourthern part of israel ??? ... then let both sides of the world, the israeli and the arabian world, develop, economically and socially ...

having a protest against an individual war is good, but it is only limited to that single event ... and sadly so, there will be more such events coming, and more protests ...

5. what happens in the bush admin ??? ... with casualties mounting on both sides, more so on the lebanon side, how can bush said an immediate ceasefire is not the right thing to do ??? ... does he think "keep on fighting till everyone dies" is the best policy to end the conflict ???

6. and what happens to the US politics there ??? ... if i am not mistaken, bush's approach got almost the full support of the congress ...

7. and what happens to democracy ??? ... when you and me, and hopefully lots of other people too, all agree that before we do anything, let's ceasefire first, the US congress, which is supposed to represent the public, supports the aggressor ... anything wrong with the congress ??? ... or anything wrong with the system itself ??? ... the latter question may be a more intriguing and thought-provoking question ..

朱迪﹕
明白﹗謝﹗
Um... 可是﹐那為甚麼只去以色列領事館請願﹖

Cliff:
Thanks! (Anyway, ignore that 'thing', please! He is being irrational now, attacking me whenever possible.)
I really don't mean to make any meaningful opinion, just I have too many question marks in my mind. I am so glad that you have read my comments into details. I truly appreciate it! Frankly, no need to defend for me, I am already very happy that I can learn more about this though the discussion. I know I don't know enough to comment on this, and that's why I have asked so many questions. Except some meaningless mechanic attacks, the constructive comments are helpful to me, though many people don't agree with my stance. Anyway, I am thankful.
And, I personally think that whether the two Israeli soldiers are released or not is a major concern on this battle, as these two soldiers have been treated as the 'MAIN REASON' for starting this war. It is important for someone to tell the world that they are already released, so we can bravely, without hesitation, tell Israel to stop the lie and to stop the excuse. If not, they have 'reason', and just like how Japan 'entered' China on 7.7., those people will always have such a lousy excuse to cover themselves. (I know I am stupid to say such things......)
Well, again, please accept my gratitude from the bottom of my heart!

阿藹﹕
現在中國的確很多藉口想進攻台灣啊﹗反正﹐我討厭戰爭﹔戰爭必定會央及池魚﹐就算發起戰爭的原因多有道理。
我無法理解的是﹐這不是歷史問題嗎﹖誰能解決﹖
也許﹐真的像有人說﹐寬恕對方﹐和平共處才是解決問題的最後方法吧﹖

問題﹕以色列一帶的爭奪不是自聖經時代已經開始了得嗎﹖那麼多人堅持要爭這片土地﹐真的有辦法教任何一方放棄嗎﹖問題是﹐以色列人堅持覺得那土地是應該屬於他們的呀﹗然後巴勒斯坦人又長期居住在此﹐Lebanese 又想趕走以色列人﹐把他們趕絕﹐每一方都覺得自己是神性的﹐是正義的﹐認為那地是他們的家園。怎樣叫誰停火﹐教誰放棄呢﹖
這一次阻止得了以色列﹐下一次勸止得了誰﹖那已經不只政治的問題﹐也不只歷史﹐更牽涉信仰和不同傳統等。我不是認同以色列這次的行為﹐可是﹐有辦法保護這地區的長期平衡跟和平麼﹖還有﹐大家想Lebanon 的平民的時候﹐可也會想想以色列的憂慮嗎﹖

(以下例子不好﹐只是我累得要命的時候勉強能想到的東西﹕大家看再見螢火蟲覺得兩個小主角慘吧﹖從他們的角度看﹐他們都是無辜的﹐平民是無辜的。可是﹐美國(或者聯軍吧﹐沒所謂的。)炸廣島和長崎真的完全不對嗎﹖沒有意義嗎﹖沒有原因嗎﹖一丁點道理都沒有嗎﹖
我也認為那很殘忍﹐可是﹐對於苦戰中的另一方來說﹐做這種不人道的事情也算有他們的因由。
真的﹐不是想替以色列講好話﹐也不是說現在是同樣狀況-肯定是不同的case﹔可是﹐以色列真的沒有受被侵擾的壓力﹐全沒有受威脅嗎﹖真的﹐但願有人高聲地告訴我完全沒有﹐那我就可以義無反顧地幫忙聲討以色列。我是認真的。只是﹐我現在還是陷在矛盾中。是該幫Lebanon 還是不該呢﹖是否Lebanon 完全沒錯呢﹖這事情真的能完結嗎﹖......)

http://israelscrimes.blogspot.com/

看過後甚麼都說不出，甚麼都不想說。

stop the war machine!

Got it.

War is cruel. Try to earn peace from wars is the most stupid thing to do......

hevangel 的提案雖然是舊話（原有版本是阿巴斯提出，建立以巴合併國），但是，係個好提議。阿巴斯提出這個妙計，實在令我對他敬重。

我唔明白韋言為何把這個提議看成偏袒以色列，怎以講為「惡人嬴晒」。這個提案如果能落實是所有溫和派的勝利（前提是以巴兩國選民都無損失），只有惡人不利。把衝突內化，有何不好？

可惜，這個提案以色列選民的損失是較大的，平衡點抓不著，以色列拒絕阿巴斯的要求，所以無法落實。不過，阿巴斯卻換取而以色列的政治信任。