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字義

Savantas一字是法文,清楚收錄於法語詞典。

Savantas ou Savantasse (即Savantas 或Savantasse)= pédant , faux savant
來源: Larousse Dictionnaire de la langue française, 1999.

Pédant 與英文pedant 同義(Le Robert & Collins Senior),即賣弄學問的人(陸谷孫編:英漢大詞典)。
Faux savant 直譯作英語, 為Fake scholar,假學者。

我手上沒有三聯的法漢詞典,只有上述的Larousse法-法詞典、Le Robert Micro 法-法詞典、Le Robert & Collins Senior 法英-英法詞典、上海譯文出版社的法漢詞典、外研社法漢詞典。

上述五部字典之中,只有Larousse及譯文有收錄Savantas一字。譯文對此字的解釋是:「冒充博學的人、一知半解的人、假充內行的人。」

Larousee的解釋見上文,而且在解釋當中,清楚表明此字屬"Péjor.",即péjoratif,貶義。懂法語的朋友可能都知道,Le Robert與Larousse兩大系列法語詞典,前者較側重現代用字,舊字典故則以Larousse較強,而且大部分情況下有出處或引句。這個例子,其引句是Bertrand : Il trouvera un savantasse plongé dans ses bouquins de droit (He will find a savantasse buried in his law books).

另莫里哀其中一部劇作<<Les Fâcheux>>有這一句:
Et des gens comme vous doivent fuir l'entretien
De tous ces savantas qui ne sont bons à rien.
(And people like you should get away from the conversation
Of all these savantas who are good at nothing.)

從以上可見,雖然Savantas一字在現代法語中已不再通用,但只要翻查稍為有份量的法語詞典,仍然很容易找到,而且意思毫不含糊。

至於為何法國文化協會的Gerard Henry說沒有此字,又或者記者當時怎樣提問、有沒有錯誤引述他的說話,我不能猜測。

回應

thanks .......

戴珍, thanks ...

when i wrote yesterday asking if anyone has checked 三聯的《新法漢詞典》, i didn't even have the slightest intention to challenge your post ...

i was just thinking that in view of what Gerard Henry said, at least we should do more checking ... this doesn't mean that i had given special weight to what Gerard Henry said ... just checking and verifying, and i think this is what all journalists should always do ...

thanks for providing so much valuable info here ... now we have a better idea on what savantas means, and more importantly, where it comes from ...

once again, thanks soooooooo much ...

truth will speak.

thanks. Now I know savantas is a real french word.

To Cliff

謝謝回應。首先,我不覺得你在「挑戰」,相反,你的疑問很合理,你實在沒有理由毫無保留地接受我三言兩語,就下定論匯賢以羅馬字母拼湊的名稱確實是個笑話。你的提問正是「求是」,提醒我應該拿出證據來。特別是,我自己也在「挑戰」匯賢對此字的解說,在挑戰明報的報道(是的,我是挑戰他們)。前兩篇文章雖說討論的超出文字範圍,但出發點卻是文字的意思。弄清文字的真正意義,正好說明匯賢自稱飽學之士,不嫌其煩在網頁、記者會上解釋名稱的由來,卻原來連字典也沒有翻開。這些字典更一點都不難找。明報讀者翻的三聯詞典,香港隨時找到;我自己手上的譯文詞典,深圳書城滿架都是,十年前買,定價人民幣24.20元。

又法文又拉丁文,說穿了,不過是藉此嚇人。在鳥堆裏扮獸,以為大家都不懂,又不敢問,就這樣過關。

第二,即使是挑戰,我完全不覺得有什麼問題。我毫不否認,自己是在挑戰匯賢、明報,他們最好回應。明報那種明明掌握證據卻不挑戰匯賢、含含糊糊了事的處理手法,看了實在令人氣憤。

我自己研習法語/用法語研習多年,很清楚這門語言在香港比較冷門,能真正通順運用法語的香港人不多,能同時運用中法兩語的恐怕更少。但我不希望自己這方面的知識、興趣,淪為自我沉溺;能夠與人分享我所知的,是一大樂趣。

特別是這次事件,我就是明知能夠拆穿匯賢的西洋鏡、以事實反擊、以中文寫作的人應該不多。撫心自問,如果連到了如此荒誕的地步都沉默不作聲,真是枉讀多年書,亦恕我粗魯多講一句,正契弟。

Mine is also Larousse......

I am getting more excited now, how come I still can't find my dictionary?!

I want to read it myself Ar, so SO interesting!!! Wow?!

to : 戴珍, hats off to you, 真正讀書的人

"撫心自問,如果連到了如此荒誕的地步都沉默不作聲,真是枉讀多年書,亦恕我粗魯多講一句,正契弟。"

真的是鏗鏘有聲。Hats off to you!

latin suffix

Somebody else has delved into the meaning of 'savantas' too. He even went further to mock at Regina Ip's misuse of the Latin suffix.

http://magliabecchi.blogspot.com/2006/07/savantas.html

是pedant也不錯!

這個字果然難查,但有網址還是有寫的:

http://dico.isc.cnrs.fr/dico/tr/search_fr?r=p%E9dant

pedant這個字在英文是貶義的,不至於偽學子,但有腐儒、學究、愛炫耀學問之人、賣弄學識之人的意思。

即使不挑偽學子的翻譯,譯作學究也有另一番味道,尤其看他們那種忽然學者的氣勢,就更覺名字改得貼切!

不枉此役

多謝補充資料。拋磚引玉,得知此地有高人,不枉此役。

法語一D都唔冷門

友人提點:比起印度語(印度好似講好多種語言),老撾語,馬拉語,泰語,馬達加斯加語,俄語,傣語,菲語,印尼語,冰島語,利比亞語,...等等語言比較,
法語在香港就一d都唔算冷門了...
若佢(或妳)用印尼語或菲律賓語來講野
大家的感覺怕且唔會係 "有知識"...

絕對同意。我對我那句說話有修正,比起英語中文來說,法語可能在香港較為冷門,但比起其他語言(如你上述的語言)則一點都不冷。法國文化協會的法語課,確實搞得有聲有色。
不過,上述這句說話還是要有註腳的。如果香港人對法語這種"熱",如同葉劉一幫拋書包,是以法語抬高自己的地位,我絕不把這些看作對語言的熱中。這只是貪慕虛榮,同買個LV手袋沒有分別。如果學習法語是求知,則懂法語與懂印尼語(據我所知,印尼也有很多地方語,但很羞愧,除了爪哇語之外,一時間說不出其他語種)之間,根本不會有高低之分。如果香港人對"印尼語"有偏見,覺得人地無知識,就咪係因為我地無知識囉。

Alliance Française Hong Kong

I agree that more and more people are learning French now in Hong Kong. However, it is very difficult to learn it well in Hong Kong. Even the teachers in Alliance Française Hong Kong(AFHK) are not all good. Also, lack of the language environment for students to practice, many people I know can write and understand paragraphs in French quite well, but they don't speak or understand the others......

By the way, Japanese is the largest foreign language in HK, I am quite sure. Why don't most of the people have motivation to learn French (or other languages) well? I guess it is because their lack of 'usefulness'. Surely I don't think this way, but most of the people would choose to learn something which can get them a better job or a higher salary, etc. Frankly, if you speak Japanese, you can get a job with much higher salary with the same level and job title; which I haven't seen any job asking for fluency or literacy in French yet (in Hong Kong) so far. Like, there are 'Japanese speaking clerks' in many Japanese companies, but 'French speaking clerks' are not needed. I have only seen a few 'up-market' restaurants saying that they prefer candidates with knowledge in French, and anyway which is not neccessary, and usually this 'qualification' does not give you higher income...

AFHK has tried to do some promotions to 'promote' French learning in HK, but with the limited resources, and the lack of 'need', it doesn't seem very useful. Nevertheless, Le French May, at least, has drawn some attention from the local society already. Hopefully the awareness of the 'not useful' languages is going to increase, as language studies is a good way of all-round training for the students, for them to learn to open up their eyes and to understand the importance of looking at things from different perspectives.

to: Frostig, Re: French

I know there are a few famous schools in HK teach French instead of Chinese to some of the students. Usually, those parents who choose the French class for their kids are either non-Chinese or Chinese who wants to be a non-Chinese. That is something puzzle me for ages. Why would a chinse parent send his child to learn french instead of chinese?

I think French one of the most unless "popular" foreign languages. Except those who actually need to use the language, only the high-class wannbe learn French.

You know what, ACG is probably the biggest motivating factor for people to learn Japanese. What's there in the French culture worthy enough for us to learn French?

Attractiveness of Languages

PLEASE, don't say such things, sir! This is really very offensive to some people. No culture is not worth understanding and studying about.

Actually, French is a very interesting language, and French people are also interesting, in a kind of weird way though, I admit. Others' cultures are not for us to under-estimate, esp. before thorough understanding.

I did start learning French for a practical reason, and then I enjoyed the procedure of learning about the cultures, not only the language, but everything linked and related to it, reflected by the ways of communications between the people from a certain cultural background.
Actually, I even want to learn Turkish, surely for NO 'USE' at all.
For thos who love languages, they know the passion and this is something very difficult to explain to the others, esp. those who don't like the arts and science of languages.

usefulness

國際上,法語比日語更有用。如果你想走出香港,學法語,或者學西班牙語,甚至葡萄牙語,也比日語好。

即然Frostig有興趣認識較冷門的語言,有否興趣學習數學語言?事實上,數學語言與日常語言的演進有不可分割的關係。

扯遠了,我曾經看過法文的數學書,比法文的一般文章易懂,嘻嘻!

Gosh!

Maths. is VERY popular indeed, throughout the globe!
And actually I have studied Maths. a bit. I studied A. Maths. and it was the worst subject ever!!! So, I am not interested in Maths. anymore.

Well, Spanish and Portuguese are MUCH MORE USEFUL! Less and less people in Europe know French nowadays (except in France, Switzerland and Belgium), in fact, but at least Spanish and Portuguese help you communicate with South Americans.

to: Frostig, Re: French

That's the fundamental different between you and me. You assume every culture has its value. I assume no culture has its value unless shown otherwise. In fact, I always question why man should be speak more than one language? Can't we have a meta-language capture the best of all the languages and junk the nonsense?

Someone may ask which language all man should speak, I am torn between English and Chinese. Emotionally, I don't want Chinese to disappear. Practically, English seems to be the trend. I would like to combine the two and everyone would use HK style chinglish, my real mother tongue﹐ but that's unrealistic.

What's good about French, other than food and wine? The good thing is that you don't need language to taste.

The problem of French is they refuse to see the value of other language, especially English, even on particale basis. That's why their language don't deserved to be valued. I travelled to France and German last year, you will know what I mean by comparing the two countries' altitude towards english. I know a bit German and my girlfriend know a bit French. In German, they will try to communicate with us in their limited english as we try our best with our limited German. In France, they will simpily ignore you by pretending they don't know english.

to:韋言
國際上法語有用是由於歷史上的錯誤﹐有改正的需要。

No Assumption There.

In fact, I haven't assumed anything.
However, it is unfair to criticise a culture and to JUDGE that it is useless, meaningless, etc. BEFORE YOU KNOW ENOUGH about it. Without learning something, you can't tell that it is useless or it does not worth learning.

For example, I didn't know how much French could help me in English learning and teaching before I learnt French. French culture is very very interesting, with their history, diversity and the different meanings of the 'same' words, etc.

I happen to know both the languages you just mentioned, with much better French (I can hardly speak German now, after so long). And I guess I won't continue to learn German, as German, like their culture, is simply too rigid. French is a 'free' language, as the spoken language is totally 'out of grammar' while only written French is strictly controlled, but German needs to follow ALL the rules ALL THE TIME.

Re: The phenomenon you spotted, it is not news. However, a part of the fact is, most French really can't seak English at all. The education system in France is quite strange, and each part has a different standard. However, in most public schools (private schools have a higher academic level), students start to learn a second language (most likely English) at the age of around 10 or even later, and to make it worse, they start learning their third language at 2 to 3 years later, while some more capable students can choose to learn a fourth language 1 year after that.
At the end of the day, that's the result you see - knowing no foreign language at all (except some people working in tourism or business world and some exceptional people).

And frankly, French are just proud, but it is not big a SIN, right? As long as you show your interest in learning their language or culture, they respect you much more. Believe me, as I actually know them. And the worst thing of French is just that they are so 'romantic' and 'THUS' very emotional, otherwise, they are much easy to get along with than Germans. Yes, Germans are more polite, but they are simply rigid, reflected by and in the language. I would say, you can get close to French speaking people more easily than the German speaking people. And, out of topic, just from my observation, although I don't know Italian. Italians seem very passionated and a bit too 'erotic'. Frankly, I believe my understanding towards them are quite superficial, so I will not be so sure before I know enough about the language and the people...... Hope you can try to see it this way, too.

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