moliuOLOGY:比非禮更嚴重的孌童

有周刊今期以此為封面:14 歲Cream 初熟,並刊登該女藝人一張「濕身」照,就正如其他女藝人的性感寫真一樣,有點「意淫」。但要注意,主角只有「14 歲」。

一直我都不反對以性感寫真為封面,只要那些照片沒有違反有關法例,無論照片如何露骨意淫,其實都是「耐佢唔何」。但究其以性感女郎為封面,目的都不離兩個。一,令人認為該女藝人是性感的,從而對她產生好感;二,以性感照片吸引讀者的眼光,在界線之內越露得多越好,越誘人越好,吸引讀者購買。

在性感背後,離不開的都是一個「性」字...

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古代

在古代14歲已經結婚生仔做人阿媽﹐去到現代14歲才變成了兒童。
為什麼一個生理心理上發育建存的14歲不可以呢﹖

話時話﹐Cream是何許人﹐幾正喎﹗

初熟?

有冇誤導先?

Early marriage is related to systmatic rape

Early and/or forced marriages subject girls to systematic rape. It also prevents them from continuing further education and leads to several health hazards, which contribute to the high maternal mortality rate in some countries.

early marriage, not systematic rape

not only girls married at young age, so did the boys. reason? short life span in the past.

as life span grows, so is the length of childhood, and the age of marriage delays further. Indeed, kidults will be even more common.

If we study carefully, nowadays most young marriages happen in poor regions only.

the problem here is "sex". Is a girl too young to be a "sex" being? How do we draw the line?

著衫無罪, 雜誌有罪?

我相信問題係呢本雜誌一向以及今次有煽動他人將此女星當作性商品之嫌. 不過, 如果她不是為這本雜誌拍照呢? 又或者, 她真的愛這種打扮, 又如何? 何況撇開年齡, 這種打扮周圍都是......

意淫....

奇怪喎!!!!!!!!!

仲以為呢篇文post出咗黎實大把人"小"呢單嘢!!!!!!!

..........................

以女性覺度黎睇............呢個係.....意淫!!!!!
( 其實....其實...都有少少...正..)

我記得細個果陣, 當社會仲係將"淫"既界線定為"露"與"不露"時 (而家都好似仲係..), 有人認為"不露而淫"係高境界既!!!

所以....我唔知點講....

因為, 係技術上, 淫真係好難界定!!!!

對不起 容我不太蠢

為何是嚴重,你不反對以性感寫真為封面,你覺得佢不性感?
14歲又如何?戀童又如何?佢比人迫拍相片?
如何可以表達一下你的想法?因為好似d野,又唔知是什麼?

Using under age models

Probably you don't realize, but the practice of using underage model is common. As long as it is not pornography, it is allowed.

But then some idiots extended it to early marriage, that is just plain stupid.

You may dislike this cover, but unless you could prove that this girl is being forced to take those photos, it is still allowed, however distasteful you find this.

為何十四歲便不可以展現自己的身體、展現自己的性感

一句細解釋不了

為何大家都覺得無問題?

  Fred兄已經寫明這件事情嚴重性在於未成年少女索涉入性之中。問題不是在於她是否被迫,而是以她的年齡是否有能力理解和處理性及其帶來的後果。
  大家可能覺得這是和森小事件一樣的「小題大造」。「?因為好似d野,又唔知是什麼?」,就正如森小的選舉題目用上一個「想」字。看似無傷大雅,想多了則是你自己意淫。但相信每一個看到這些選舉題目﹑和封面的人中,總有不少因而引起其對性的幻想。而相信雜誌方面和該名女藝人的家長亦早知道事情會這樣發展,這都沒有問題嗎?!
  如果大家覺得生理成熟但未成年,甚至未滿十六歲的少女發生性行為都沒有問題。那香港及世界各地保障兒童免受性侵害的法例又立足於甚麼道理之上?如果大家仍然想說,「沒有人強迫她去拍」﹑「沒有人真正和她發生性行為」﹑「封面﹑內容均無直接倡導人去對她有性幻想」,或者你們應該去信立法會議員要戈十求在「衰十一」的條文上加上相方同意便可逍遙法外的部份,並且要求廢除淫褻及不雅物品條例。

誤導

初熟係唔係即係食得呀!!

為甚麼不能討論"衰十一""16歲呢條線"的合理性?

至少, 與未成年男子做愛, 女性(無論十六歲與否)又為何無責任?

討論 不等於推倒重來, 而是通過討論, 令各界更明白一條條例合理與否, 其實亦有可能強化我們對條例的支持.

Line of child and adult

We must understand there must be a line between child and adult. This issue is the same as speed control. There must be some speed control, despite the line can be argued, and we must not draw a line to accept a child as a adult, and hence to allow the child to shoulder adult's responsiblity.

The different treating between boy and girl is issue of historical context. This issue is the same when a husband cannot be charged to rape his wife 20 years before. The line should be redrawn. The current line is, boy under some age is defined as "incapable of sex" and "incapable to commit crime". Girls will never be "incapable of sex", but it could be "incapable to consent". This is a material difference between boys and girls.

兒童和成人的分別

  其實我也不贊成簡單地以一個歲數去決定和心智成熟度有限的女性發生性行為的合理性。是否合理成該從該少女對性的意義及其後果的了解來判斷。十八或者十六只是由於難以就此作清晰量度而定下的底線。
  一個十四歲的「少女」有否足夠成熟的心智?在我而言言個問題的答案十分明顯。故此我才舉出那些條例,指出此事的嚴重性。一個十四歲少女被當作性幻想對象和一個成年女星受到同等待遇有否分別,不應是從她是否自願及曝露程度是否相同而判斷的。

underaged sex

well, in the west, having sex with underaged is a crime. It doesn't matter it is a gal or a boy. Hong Kong definitely falls behind.

yes. someone may be young but is mentally mature enough. but it is hard to define "mature", and age is the simplest way to draw a line. you may think it is not fair, but having sex a few years latter is not a great deal.

about early marriage. well, I should say sorry to XOX, what I mean is "teen marriage". (early marriage means arranged teen marriage, big difference). I guess hevangel also means teen marriage. the logic is similar. is a girl mature enough to get married?

這是一場硬仗

等你講這句說話!

我知你一定會說條例規定、條例規定!你這樣的條件反射,不怪得有2百幾萬新移民來香港我們會信、人大釋法有法律依據我又信!
其實我真是不知道有什麼空間去討論!
一句心智不成熟、一句有法律依據便完
所以七一遊行時,說青年是心智不心熟是對,即使沒有原因。
你們不應再叫青年去參與。
我非常明白「怎」為什麼你會這樣火

History of childhood

When we talk about history, we must understand the concept of childhood is not knwon until industrial era. Teens marriage happens not because of short live span, but the reality is parents at that era know very little about childhood. Children are simply smaller men. The difference is physical but not physiological. Eastern world know little about Physiology and child/teens labour is common 50 years ago even in Hongkong.

Childhood lack capacity to differiate what is naughty and what is evil. We have a preassumption that a child under age of 14 is incapable to commit crime. Teens should have this capacity but still, in practice, tends to err more often than adults (refer to sexual assault election). That's why we have specific correctional services aimed for teens.

[Added later]
What children and teens lack is experience. Setup a rose garden for children to prevent from getting adult world experience does not help children to learn. The correct comparsion, is again on driving. First year driver is limited to access some dangerous act and fatal spots. Doing dangerous act in the first year license could void that license. However, it would be equally meaningless to ban all new drivers completely from driving even in safe roads.

Th current line of "dangerous spots" for children are namely, sex, cigar and band-3 film. There are also other reactive restriction like very hard to get loan, get access to child arcane center, etc. These restriction are "reactive" because there is no intention to constraint children. That laws actually constraint adults, making children never liable to debt and hence no one would lend money to children and expect to get the money back.

回:大頭b

其實我真是不明白說什麼?

首先妳說年齡問題,但又如何?法律寫明有很多事都不應該做,但請你有機會看看這裡的文章,重建、小販、性小眾那一個群眾不是法律下的弱勢,法律不得於一定是對,而我們要看理據及處景。

在這前設下,所以我們可以重新討論,年輕為何不可以自己展現自己的身體在報紙上(不要立即說法律規定,我知道了,我知道了!)?一句細說不了什麼(又重覆,真是慘)!

星途是個人的選擇,你這麼關心你便去做佢經理人吧!

On erotic text

I fell I should say something on a comment suggesting "erotic text" should be regarded as "erotic" and hence should be controlled.

http://sidekick.mysinablog.com/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=184390

Erotic is a viusalization terms. It is a sex display. Erotic text is not a sex display. Control of erotic text is interference to freedom of expression. It prevents the possibly of public *discussion* of sex imgaination and fantasy. Extension of erotic to text is definitely a breach of Hongkong Bill of Rights, and very danagerous.

Application of erotic text (e.g. "漏奶") to real person (not erotic fiction in the old days) is a public insult. Public insult should be deal similarly as libel. It is a private dispute and there is no role for civil society or public agencies (except private law and courts of private law). I must warn against the arrogance and violence of civil society and abuse of public agencies (except legalisation said later). There are much issue can be deal within private law and legalisation of private law, and it should not be dealt publicly nor even dealt on internet.

Reference:

性幻想需要空間
http://www.inmediahk.net/public/article?item_id=117311&group_id=219

最想非禮
http://www.inmediahk.net/public/article?item_id=119321&group_id=126

香港仔公國:致黃世澤先生的公開信
http://www.inmediahk.net/public/article?item_id=123280&group_id=22
(My question is, why this issue not deal privately and deal by private law? Same issue!)

澄清一些觀點

  可能是我表達得差,希望澄清一下。
 
  首先,我提出那些法律條文,並非認為合法等如必然合理。我只是指出,那些法律條文的存在,代表著這個社會上認同的一個價值-兒童應該受到保護,免受「性侵害」﹔以及媒體報導應有一定的界限。當然大家未必同意這是一種「性侵害」。
 
  另外,沒錯,每個人都可以為自己去介定性對甚自身的意義。並不存在普世通行的必然價值,我想指出的一個十四歲的少女是否能夠作出有關的獨立思考呢?她自己的星途又有多少是真正由她自己決定呢?她又是否真正知道自己走的是一條怎樣的路呢?這是我的著眼點。
 
  我多次提到心智不成熟,沒錯是主觀的認為李小姐並未有自行認付這件事的能力。但我認為這和反對青少年有政治訴求是兩回事。
 
  首先,上街遊行﹑支持爭取普選的年青人,其成熟程度和一個十四歲少女相必,「未必」相同。
 
  第二,即使你打出「普選」這支旗號,我始終認為,假若一個年青人若果在未了解何謂普選﹑民主﹑為何要支持民主政制,我也是不贊同他應該上街的。六四晚會上有很多家長帶同子女同行,當中不乏十一二歲或更年輕的兒童,他們故然能夠理解六四血腥鎮壓的可恥,但未必明白何謂維權﹑何謂學運(這就等如可以上街和可以拍意淫照的界線未必相同),他們當然可以從中了解到專制政權的可怕,但是這些是否任何年齡和精神狀況下的人都所能理解的呢?
 
  我不反對年青人支持普選(我自己也不算太老),但我反對在未日明所以之前盲目/情緒化地投向任何陣營(當我以為自己對政治有一點了解時,也曾相信劉江華所喊的不要爭執要和諧)。

己所不欲, 勿施於人!!

席陽有冇犯罪我唔知, 但香港記者的水平操守, 自絕對懷疑!! 將收費廣告當作時事新聞報導已是長久以來的事實!以記者身份收集他人資料而非作報導用途, 是否違法呢!!??
傳媒, 政客的智慧, 我簡直感驚訝!! 名咀, 公子, 才子從來沒有對事作任何改善, 但已做成神一樣而神聖不可犯!!
議員政客, 理應是代言人, 但就不可報以反對言論!!
網絡媒體, 壟斷資訊自由, 強要當上中間人角式而收費是商業行違, 但以利用中間人角式而獲得的資訊, 作出誤導及心理戰, 從而使受訊人改變行為, 令中間人獲取利益, 又是否合法呢!!??

所有所有都有一個簡單衡量方法, 就係(己所不欲, 勿施於人!!)o

如強要以歪理寬己簿人, 理由祗有一個, 你的價值比任何人都高!!!!

history of childhood

我不同意近代才有兒童心智的認識,否則也沒有『幼稚』一詞。

早婚與年齡的關係,很簡單:古時平均不到五十,而廿多歳才結婚生子,有甚麼問題?當某君結婚生子時,上一代已行將就木,誰人教導某君如何飬兒育女?

既然要早婚,兒童也未有判別適當配偶的知識,才有『arranged marriage』。

是近代醫學進步,壽命大增,人類有充份時間吸收知識。我們再不急於早婚,因而亦不再需要『arranged marriage』。亦正因如此,強迫早婚成了一種不合時宜以至殘忍的風俗。

現在是倒過來,早婚或少年性行為,被認為是不道德。因為若少年不清楚後果,一但出子亂子,可能不知如何應付。

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