謝謝你直率可愛的文字爆發, 有火又有情, 我讀時是笑中有淚. 搞工會的想法很特別, 如何運作? 與誰bargain?

我也試過接到很多社工邀請做什麼什麼, 沒錢的居多(飯盒倒也是有的), 多數也推掉, 反而是搞抗爭運動的基層團體, 沒錢的我都做, 也猶疑是不是會做壞大家個市呢?!

I like this most in the whole article.

It is simply the keypoint. Love this article a lot. Not only artists, a lot of people in Hong Kong, throughout different industries are not paid or reasonably paid. It is really good to voice out. Unions in any industry is good for making Hong Kong a healthier society. Maybe you guys should contact Lee Chuk Yan...... Think about it.

The worst thing is that we don't know how many 'Central-Value-ism' supporters (which, most of them are the rich ones, and expect all of us to thank them, as they are the biggest donors, haha.) buy such 'theories'.

By they way, just in case they would see, I can tell everybody. I am not 'professional' using 'Cantralist categories'. As a private tutor, I charge HKD150 per hour for English and HKD300 per hour for French (beginners only) for one-to-one lessons. Just give this rate to the presenters, not asking for more, as they are regarded as professionals...... I Don't think this is unreasonable.

本來只係諗住係一角發窮惡，你班友仔真係大整蠱，竟然貼我上focus？
阿藹的處竟其實一樣，就係覺得你地班友仔飽讀詩書有正經野唔做攞苦黎辛你恨做呢d黎多過我恨比錢你做呢d野純粹市場供求問題─要講理想吖嘛─半折支薪你都肯做架喇！所以唔好講話搞藝術，總之你一講理想，就有咁既下場。
組工會？真係諗得過~明碼實價當然好理想，但至少大家簽一份code of ethics互相警剔都好！

什麼是鳥籠政治!!?? 不如說是黑社會政治, 既然不能公開辯說的政治, 是不是應說是黑社會政治呢!!??

藝術家公會化當然對保障藝術家生活有一定幫, 助但窮富極度不平均, 試問一般市民又有多少閒錢去用於不是必需品的藝術享受呢!!??

噢 ... code of ethics ... 又多了一個有趣的名詞! 要不要也寫一個「香港藝術家勞動宣言」？可以作為工會的成立宣言，但其實，我是更想為code of ethics提供一個奔跑的草原。

以前試過為草根團體會員的子女開結他班，我問他們家中的勞動人均收入是多少，然後算出他們的平均時薪〈譬如說是22元1小時〉，我再算一算自己開班及備課時間〈6個兩小時課，加24小時備課，因為的任由學生選曲學習呀〉，就得出的的結他班收費〈792元〉，除以學生人數，就是他們每人的學費〈若有10個學生，每人學費79.2元〉。

如果為其他收入一般的年青人開班，也用同一原則，我大概收2000-3000元。我用了這個原則一段日子了，未試過有人說不公平。大家又覺得怎樣？

關於與樂施會談藝術家的workshop工資，莫昭如有很多經驗。

I can't understand clearly your calculation. What is it for? How does it work? (I know you have explained already :-P)

我先問參加者，他們的家人勞動的時薪是多少，以此為基數〈譬如是每小時22元〉，乘以我的工時〈共36小時〉，得出我的工資〈792元〉。如果有10人參加我的班，他們每人付我79.2元。

我的原則是，我的學生〈或他們的家人〉每小時賺多少，我就跟他們一樣收取多少。如果我的客人的收入越高〈譬如是月入1萬，時薪約55元〉，那我教他們彈結他的收入也越高〈1,980元〉。我試過在同一個結他班內，有付不同學費的學生，他們上課前是知道的，我解釋了原則，大家也沒有異議。這樣，窮學生也就一樣可以享受彈結他的樂趣了。

我是想回應上面「好想問」考慮的，「窮人冇錢享受藝術〈或藝術家的服務〉」的問題。但我相信, 其他人也會有其他好的解決辦法的。只是想分享一下自己的方法而矣。

我老豆未做商人之前，係做行貨畫畫家，絕對明白梁寶講的辛酸。

我依家雖以寫字為業，但在我而言，營運手法是商業化。強硬實行30/N收賬政策(亦即每月結算日後三十天結賬俾錢唔該)，寫商業文章以至提供顧問服務會多少計算商業能力，思考不同業務的可行性。我諗過，幫新晉作家開Syndication公司(學外國)，幫作家向報館sell稿，以及追債。

要自立，唯有做資本家。(灰......)

香港的資源分配者應正名為資源掠奪者!!

當一個地方的人的個人資訊自由, 個人私穩及個人權利都不被法律保障, 而那些政治代言人只是出賣群眾的騙子及橡皮圖章時o 你已變成權貴的奴隸, 你只是政府謀取執政的工具o 人民漸漸地變得無知以至無法獲取真實資訊!! 個人資源不知不覺地被掠奪, 公開地搾騙已被美化為財富轉移遊戲, 並已成為大部分人所追求的生活目標o 在這樣的社會中生存, 不管你是從事什麼工作都低不過是奴隸!! 什麼資本家只是財富暫代執行者, 權勢才是財富的真正來源o
你所說商業化交易,n30數期, 又有何用? 如交易後立心是拖,拉, 欠的話, 試問你又可以如何!!?? 莫非你賣的都是其他人的必需品而你產品又是專利的, 不會有其他代替品或仿造品!!?? 如是這樣, 恭喜你黃世澤君, 你成功呢, 資金根本再不會是你的問題............不然的話, 請你看看有沒有保安, 清潔, 司機的工作, 如社會上連這些工作都不留給你的話, 即是話政府在謀殺你!! 你的DNA不是國家所共有的DNA!!再來一個以民為本, 你的奴隸身份已成國有, 沒有主人的默許不能出口其他國家!!

梁寶的文章令我想起很多不快經驗﹕

我不是藝術家，是全職肥爛屎(freelancer)，有時有ngo開口請我幫忙，我都出手，說明有車馬費，少是少了點，都好，最後可能告訴你ngo很窮，最好唔收。ngo是很人性的機構，有些ngo卻忘了我都是人，要吃飯，要坐車來，有種奉旨的氣焰。

你幫完甲ngo做義工，乙ngo可能想你幫手做類似工作，但當你要求酬勞的時候，對方質疑為何上次不收甲錢。我認為當哪個機構的義工都有選擇權吧！我覺得窮人應該互相幫助，一些ngo要求我無償工作，令我覺得是窮人在欺負窮人。

i accidentally listened to Wong Ying Kei's radio programme tonite. a vice president (VP) of BU was invited to talk about the shek kip mei 'art factory'. when being asked if there's possibility to link up art with creative industry, the guy said, "yes if we'd see the potential of turning the art into product"

really hopeless! with his conception of art cannot be sold directly/ art is not a commodity, i'd tell that the mentality of those people is still the same however hard we 'talk' about creative industry. and even when art got the chance to move in a factory OFFICIALLY- a factory which produces goods that cannot be sold. what the hell are we doing to promote art?

in Wong Ying Kei's words, artists in Hong Kong need space to work and at the moment there're only cattle depot, Fotan and Chaiwan where artists can afford to rent studios but not other places. thus it's nice to have another factory building.

of course she's right that artists need space of low rent but in fact everyone in hong kong needs that. a fishball lad needs low rent in order to have a better life although he can pay a shop in causeway bay, which could cost $200,000/month. the point is, when WYK said that the implication is, artists cannot survive on producing art (fishball lad can). that's the problem they should have to help tackle when opening up yet another 'factory' instead of 'we provide cheap places and you think about the goods (not your art because it doesn't sell). otherwise we'd better do some artistic fishballs in the factory. at least we may have the chance to sell our work in causeway bay.

why don't there anyone who in any publc sphere like a radio programme to suggest to the people that when they change their wallpaper try Tsang Kin Wah's. and, when they sell their apartment with good price, ask Wan Lai Kuen to mould a corner of it to memorise their success in property business. and, when they buy a new flat ask Luke Ching to make a life size pin-hole image of the sea view before spending money in renovation. that is, simply ask them to spend money wisely on 'real' art instead of fake palace/night club style. people got the money and need quality goods for quality life but just not aware of what're available. with the position of the legislative councillor and the VP they'd do something moe substantial.

and, everyone seems very happy about one more cheap space for art and there's no discussion on why there's such an abandoned factory (and factories). what exactly happened to the local manufacturing industry? does that indicate the future of local art at this moment when art got the chance to be 'made in a factory'?

with such mentality of that VP, i'd probably imagine the kind of artists being educated in BU.

sorry for being long-winded.

kith

Not only 藝術教育, the whole education system in HK is like that. Maybe in the whole world is like that, I don't know.

People suddenly tell you that 'training' is not needed to perform the job, as the boss can't spend so much time and money;
then they suddenly tell you that you have to have experience to be able to do it well......

No training, how to get experience?

You don't understand the meanings of the sentences themselves, or you don't understand why these meanings are relevant to the discussion?